I am going to respectfully disagree with your characterization of Israel’s response to Oct. 7. I also join the skeptics of the Kristof op-ed but will post about that elsewhere.
While I don’t believe my disagreement with you is a function of tribalism, I also think we all should be aware of our own biases. So, though I think of myself as a critical thinker and a discerning consumer of facts, none of us are immune from motivated reasoning. As such, as a proud Zionist American Jew, I acknowledge that possibility as I write this.
For your fellow subscribers, a quick background on me: I am a 57-year-old Reaganite or traditional conservative if you will. Though never an official member of the Republican Party, I was a reliable Republican voter until 2015. I left that coalition in the wake of the 2016 Primary and have not voted for a Republican for Federal office during the entirety of the Trump Era (I have voted for R’s for statewide and local offices because the Dem Party in Oregon is a failed state but that is a discussion for another time). Through subscriptions, I have supported many independent anti-Trump media outlets including of course you, The Bulwark, Adam Kinzinger, The Dispatch and mainstream outlets like The Atlantic and New York Times. Though I have significant disagreements with Rich Lowry and some of the other writers there, I also subscribe to National Review, and I am a frequent listener to Commentary Podcast (I told you I was non tribal). I like hearing arguments even from those with whom I may not agree.
Below are several links
Andrew Fox Substack which has multiple articles on Gaza but I am going to link to one called Israel Derangement Syndrome.
Mark Hertling defending the Israel response to Oct. 7 on the Bulwark Podcast (interview date December 2024)
Eliot Cohen and Eric Edelman defending the Israel response to Oct. 7 on Shield of the Republic (August 2025)
All of the aforementioned are critics of Trump and of Netanyahu from time to time and all give Israel high marks for a necessary military strategy that degraded Hamas while minimizing civilian casualties. You can think they are wrong, but you cannot accuse the of tribalism.
My view:
I am horrified by the death and destruction in Gaza though I put the majority of the blame on Hamas for said death and destruction. They planned the attack over a long period of time, prepared Gaza for it and did everything they could to see that there was maximum damage done to infrastructure of Gaza and death to their fellow Gazans. I have not heard anyone offer a persuasive case for an alternative strategy for Israel.
Israel had two goals: 1)degrade Hamas militarily such that they could not perpetrate another 10/7 and 2) get as many of the hostages out alive as possible.
Of course, neither goal was achieved perfectly, but both goals were largely accomplished and while the tactics of Hamas required the destruction of much of the infrastructure of Gaza, for an urban conflict, Israel kept the non-Hamas militant death toll to a relative minimum considering the complexity of the task at hand. Hamas says 70,000 people killed out of a population of over 2 million. Out of the 70,000 approximately 25,000 were militants. There certainly was some Gazans killed by errant missiles and gunfire of Hamas (of course I would argue all of the deaths are a result of Hamas’s war strategy) so that leaves maybe 35,000 to 40,000 civilians killed by Israel while killing 25,000 militants. While, I don’t make light of 35,000 innocent civilians killed as a result, folks who are experts on warfare and especially urban warfare consider it noteworthy that Israel killed so few people relative to militants killed in such a complex environment. In Mosul, we killed 5 civilians for every 1 militant. Here the ratio was closer 1.5. War is horrible and results in the death and suffering of the innocent. Gaza was such a war but it was not unusual in that sense.
Hamas had 15 years to plan the war and prepare Gaza for it and the result was 1,000 miles of the most complex underground tunnel system known to man (billions of dollars of concrete was spent) with nearly 60,000 tunnel entrances. To minimize civilian casualties, the IDF would announce where they are going ahead of time which meant Hamas had time to boobytrap each building (this per Andrew Fox). The IDF faced threats from above, below and every direction. The tunnel system was the key to Hamas’s strength and destroying as much of it as possible was critical to degrading Hamas’s war making ability and ensuring they would not pull off another 10/7.
Again, I just don’t know what else Israel could have done.
Finally, I will say this. I understand you may still disagree with me. The essence of non-tribalism is we can have a conversation about things with which we disagree and not think the other person “the enemy”. Maybe you will read this and be persuaded. Maybe you will not. Perhaps you will respond and persuade me why I am wrong. But one thing I can say for sure is whatever your view on this, I will continue to admire and support your work because that is the behavior I think folks like us need to model and because, well, I admire your work.
Thank you for hearing me out, Charlie.
Below are the links to the various interviews/columns I cited above.
By no means do I think the Israelis never get rough with captured members of Hamas or Hezbollah. Rather I suppose they sometimes do. However, I am skeptical of the story. First I think Kristoff is more of a propagandist than you do. Second, the story relies on claims by members of terrorist organizations the members of which have a long history of lying to credulous and sympathetic European and American journalists and getting believed by them. My guess is that mistreatment happens in Israeli prisons, but Kristoff and others exaggerate it. The Israelis are fighting a tough war against literal savages. People fighting such wars sometime go too far and do things they should not. There is a well known (though as far as I know unverified) story telling that when GIs liberated one of the Nazi concentration camps in 1945, they began shooting the camp's surrendered guards until superior officers arrived and stopped them. A person can think they were wrong and wish they had followed the rules and still understand why they did it and wonder what he would have done in their place.
The real tragedy about all of this is that the people of Israel and Palestine are manipulated into making bad governing choices. Both sides are guilty of horrific atrocities. Politicians have got to figure out how to lead themselves out of this and develop and implement a two-state solution.
Long before he stepped foot on that “golden escalator,” We Knew WHO he was. His business MO — failures were well-known.
The Hollywood Access Tapes
The 16 Republican candidates running against him during the 2016 Rep primary who #CalledHimOut Every.Single.One.
If that wasn’t enough, what followed in the next 4 years should have been. His inclination to ignore the LAW (“Can't you just shoot them, {protestors} just shoot them in the legs or something?”
The Covid Years
January 6th attack.
America was #warned in the single most important statement made in the February 2020 impeachment trial…
"We must say enough — enough! He has betrayed our national security, and he will do so again. He has compromised our elections, and he will do so again. You will not change him. You cannot constrain him. He is who he is.
Truth matters little to him. What's right matters even less, and decency matters not at all."
Treason is the crime of betraying one's country, specifically by attempting to overthrow the government, waging war against the state, or aiding its enemies. Under the U.S. Constitution, it is defined narrowly as levying war against the U.S. or providing "aid and comfort" to its enemies.”
One of the biggest threats to society is "Well, if our guys do it, it's okay."
It underpins nearly everything in the current political climate and discourse. Perhaps it began with apologies for Clinton's behavior, but it was polished to a shiny smooth brown by nearly every transgression that Trump has done.
Here we are at the inevitable escalation of the concept: brushing off brutality that would horrify a Viking beserker.
In brutal times, armies use brutality as a weapon of war. Both the Israel Defence Force(IDF) and Hamas have used rape as a weapon in this conflict along with other horrific tactics that are outside the “rules” of a “just war”. Neither side has the moral high ground.
Hamas used rape on Oct. 7, 2023. The IDF has used it since then as an unofficial tactic of psychological warfare in the war on Gaza. Both military forces are committing war crimes in this conflict. Both should be condemned and made to stop. If anyone has any realistic suggestions as to how this can be accomplished, please tell the world.
I am BEGGING you to do what Pharaoh did when he found out Moses was a Jew-struck his name from ever being mentioned again-to the repulsive Piker. He should garner no mention-EVER. Also, I wonder how many innocents were raped awaiting, for hours, for the Israelis to come to their rescue on that horrific day, something rarely mentioned. So much for the vaunted Israeli military.
I am a lifelong Democrat who married a (former - until 2016) Republican who fervently believes that we can and should create a large enough tent to include both those who agree AND those who disagree with us, and who are willing to engage with one another in civil way. I cannot, however, conceive of a tent large enough to include Piker. I have no idea how he became aligned with the Democrats or why he considers himself a liberal, but I think he is a hateful bigot. I couldn’t care less how hateful bigots identify. I do not want them in my tent.
For those uncertain as to who believe about these issues, may I recommend the generally high quality journalism of Haaretz and Jewish Currents. They have regularly reported on the abuse of Palestinians in Israeli jails. The staff there are like “righteous Jews,”standing up for human rights for all. Like their predecessor “righteous Christians “ who protected Jewish people during the shoah.
Always follow the money. Australia said not so fast Trump tower. And I'm here for it. Those monstrosities should never be built anywhere in the world. Palestinians were done a disservice at the end of WW2 when their homeland was taken and given to Israel. So they are justified in their anger. Bibi is an authoritarian and untrustworthy. I stand with both these people and their right to live, work, breathe, create, know peace and prosperity on their own little patch of ground. Shame on those whose greed usurped this. Can you teach Eli to alert when trump lands back in the US? We need an alert so we can take our anti nausea medicine. I absolutely love the unserious and unflattering greeting from Beijing upon Trump's arrival! 🤣🤣👏👏👏
Charlie
I am going to respectfully disagree with your characterization of Israel’s response to Oct. 7. I also join the skeptics of the Kristof op-ed but will post about that elsewhere.
While I don’t believe my disagreement with you is a function of tribalism, I also think we all should be aware of our own biases. So, though I think of myself as a critical thinker and a discerning consumer of facts, none of us are immune from motivated reasoning. As such, as a proud Zionist American Jew, I acknowledge that possibility as I write this.
For your fellow subscribers, a quick background on me: I am a 57-year-old Reaganite or traditional conservative if you will. Though never an official member of the Republican Party, I was a reliable Republican voter until 2015. I left that coalition in the wake of the 2016 Primary and have not voted for a Republican for Federal office during the entirety of the Trump Era (I have voted for R’s for statewide and local offices because the Dem Party in Oregon is a failed state but that is a discussion for another time). Through subscriptions, I have supported many independent anti-Trump media outlets including of course you, The Bulwark, Adam Kinzinger, The Dispatch and mainstream outlets like The Atlantic and New York Times. Though I have significant disagreements with Rich Lowry and some of the other writers there, I also subscribe to National Review, and I am a frequent listener to Commentary Podcast (I told you I was non tribal). I like hearing arguments even from those with whom I may not agree.
Below are several links
Andrew Fox Substack which has multiple articles on Gaza but I am going to link to one called Israel Derangement Syndrome.
Mark Hertling defending the Israel response to Oct. 7 on the Bulwark Podcast (interview date December 2024)
Eliot Cohen and Eric Edelman defending the Israel response to Oct. 7 on Shield of the Republic (August 2025)
All of the aforementioned are critics of Trump and of Netanyahu from time to time and all give Israel high marks for a necessary military strategy that degraded Hamas while minimizing civilian casualties. You can think they are wrong, but you cannot accuse the of tribalism.
My view:
I am horrified by the death and destruction in Gaza though I put the majority of the blame on Hamas for said death and destruction. They planned the attack over a long period of time, prepared Gaza for it and did everything they could to see that there was maximum damage done to infrastructure of Gaza and death to their fellow Gazans. I have not heard anyone offer a persuasive case for an alternative strategy for Israel.
Israel had two goals: 1)degrade Hamas militarily such that they could not perpetrate another 10/7 and 2) get as many of the hostages out alive as possible.
Of course, neither goal was achieved perfectly, but both goals were largely accomplished and while the tactics of Hamas required the destruction of much of the infrastructure of Gaza, for an urban conflict, Israel kept the non-Hamas militant death toll to a relative minimum considering the complexity of the task at hand. Hamas says 70,000 people killed out of a population of over 2 million. Out of the 70,000 approximately 25,000 were militants. There certainly was some Gazans killed by errant missiles and gunfire of Hamas (of course I would argue all of the deaths are a result of Hamas’s war strategy) so that leaves maybe 35,000 to 40,000 civilians killed by Israel while killing 25,000 militants. While, I don’t make light of 35,000 innocent civilians killed as a result, folks who are experts on warfare and especially urban warfare consider it noteworthy that Israel killed so few people relative to militants killed in such a complex environment. In Mosul, we killed 5 civilians for every 1 militant. Here the ratio was closer 1.5. War is horrible and results in the death and suffering of the innocent. Gaza was such a war but it was not unusual in that sense.
Hamas had 15 years to plan the war and prepare Gaza for it and the result was 1,000 miles of the most complex underground tunnel system known to man (billions of dollars of concrete was spent) with nearly 60,000 tunnel entrances. To minimize civilian casualties, the IDF would announce where they are going ahead of time which meant Hamas had time to boobytrap each building (this per Andrew Fox). The IDF faced threats from above, below and every direction. The tunnel system was the key to Hamas’s strength and destroying as much of it as possible was critical to degrading Hamas’s war making ability and ensuring they would not pull off another 10/7.
Again, I just don’t know what else Israel could have done.
Finally, I will say this. I understand you may still disagree with me. The essence of non-tribalism is we can have a conversation about things with which we disagree and not think the other person “the enemy”. Maybe you will read this and be persuaded. Maybe you will not. Perhaps you will respond and persuade me why I am wrong. But one thing I can say for sure is whatever your view on this, I will continue to admire and support your work because that is the behavior I think folks like us need to model and because, well, I admire your work.
Thank you for hearing me out, Charlie.
Below are the links to the various interviews/columns I cited above.
Mark Hertling on The Bulwark (Dec 2024)
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/mark-hertling-putins-weakness
Shield of the Republic
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/how-do-you-fight-in-a-city
Andrew Fox
https://mrandrewfox.substack.com/p/israel-derangement-syndrome
By no means do I think the Israelis never get rough with captured members of Hamas or Hezbollah. Rather I suppose they sometimes do. However, I am skeptical of the story. First I think Kristoff is more of a propagandist than you do. Second, the story relies on claims by members of terrorist organizations the members of which have a long history of lying to credulous and sympathetic European and American journalists and getting believed by them. My guess is that mistreatment happens in Israeli prisons, but Kristoff and others exaggerate it. The Israelis are fighting a tough war against literal savages. People fighting such wars sometime go too far and do things they should not. There is a well known (though as far as I know unverified) story telling that when GIs liberated one of the Nazi concentration camps in 1945, they began shooting the camp's surrendered guards until superior officers arrived and stopped them. A person can think they were wrong and wish they had followed the rules and still understand why they did it and wonder what he would have done in their place.
The real tragedy about all of this is that the people of Israel and Palestine are manipulated into making bad governing choices. Both sides are guilty of horrific atrocities. Politicians have got to figure out how to lead themselves out of this and develop and implement a two-state solution.
“accidentally?”
Long before he stepped foot on that “golden escalator,” We Knew WHO he was. His business MO — failures were well-known.
The Hollywood Access Tapes
The 16 Republican candidates running against him during the 2016 Rep primary who #CalledHimOut Every.Single.One.
If that wasn’t enough, what followed in the next 4 years should have been. His inclination to ignore the LAW (“Can't you just shoot them, {protestors} just shoot them in the legs or something?”
The Covid Years
January 6th attack.
America was #warned in the single most important statement made in the February 2020 impeachment trial…
"We must say enough — enough! He has betrayed our national security, and he will do so again. He has compromised our elections, and he will do so again. You will not change him. You cannot constrain him. He is who he is.
Truth matters little to him. What's right matters even less, and decency matters not at all."
Donald Trump did not accidentally tell the truth.
It was there #InPlainSight from the beginning…
It was never about America First.
REMOVE the 47th President of the United States
#NOW
“TREASON
Treason is the crime of betraying one's country, specifically by attempting to overthrow the government, waging war against the state, or aiding its enemies. Under the U.S. Constitution, it is defined narrowly as levying war against the U.S. or providing "aid and comfort" to its enemies.”
Excellent
One of the biggest threats to society is "Well, if our guys do it, it's okay."
It underpins nearly everything in the current political climate and discourse. Perhaps it began with apologies for Clinton's behavior, but it was polished to a shiny smooth brown by nearly every transgression that Trump has done.
Here we are at the inevitable escalation of the concept: brushing off brutality that would horrify a Viking beserker.
In brutal times, armies use brutality as a weapon of war. Both the Israel Defence Force(IDF) and Hamas have used rape as a weapon in this conflict along with other horrific tactics that are outside the “rules” of a “just war”. Neither side has the moral high ground.
Hamas used rape on Oct. 7, 2023. The IDF has used it since then as an unofficial tactic of psychological warfare in the war on Gaza. Both military forces are committing war crimes in this conflict. Both should be condemned and made to stop. If anyone has any realistic suggestions as to how this can be accomplished, please tell the world.
I am BEGGING you to do what Pharaoh did when he found out Moses was a Jew-struck his name from ever being mentioned again-to the repulsive Piker. He should garner no mention-EVER. Also, I wonder how many innocents were raped awaiting, for hours, for the Israelis to come to their rescue on that horrific day, something rarely mentioned. So much for the vaunted Israeli military.
Thanks Charlie.
Thank you Charlie. Don't know how you do it, but I'm glad that you're here for us all.
That is a BEAUTIFUL photo of Eli! What a background too! THANKS for that!
I am a lifelong Democrat who married a (former - until 2016) Republican who fervently believes that we can and should create a large enough tent to include both those who agree AND those who disagree with us, and who are willing to engage with one another in civil way. I cannot, however, conceive of a tent large enough to include Piker. I have no idea how he became aligned with the Democrats or why he considers himself a liberal, but I think he is a hateful bigot. I couldn’t care less how hateful bigots identify. I do not want them in my tent.
For those uncertain as to who believe about these issues, may I recommend the generally high quality journalism of Haaretz and Jewish Currents. They have regularly reported on the abuse of Palestinians in Israeli jails. The staff there are like “righteous Jews,”standing up for human rights for all. Like their predecessor “righteous Christians “ who protected Jewish people during the shoah.
The one-time Hamas attack? Hamas is a terrorist group that has attacked and killed many Israelis, Americans and other foreign nationals over decades.
Always follow the money. Australia said not so fast Trump tower. And I'm here for it. Those monstrosities should never be built anywhere in the world. Palestinians were done a disservice at the end of WW2 when their homeland was taken and given to Israel. So they are justified in their anger. Bibi is an authoritarian and untrustworthy. I stand with both these people and their right to live, work, breathe, create, know peace and prosperity on their own little patch of ground. Shame on those whose greed usurped this. Can you teach Eli to alert when trump lands back in the US? We need an alert so we can take our anti nausea medicine. I absolutely love the unserious and unflattering greeting from Beijing upon Trump's arrival! 🤣🤣👏👏👏
Both sides committing the most abominable of war crimes.