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Stacey Voorn's avatar

Charlie, I think your extreme read on the DSA is being shaped by two things: the PTSD of watching MAGA hollow out your former party, and a deep-seated wariness as a ‘recovering conservative’ of anything that smells like socialism — your words, not mine. I get it. But as a lifelong center-left Democrat, I have to be honest: you’re doing the party and the country a disservice by flattening something that is genuinely more nuanced than you’re giving it credit for.

I’ve done the same research. Read the same materials. Listened to people who proudly call themselves members. And I’ve landed somewhere very different than you.

Here’s the reality: within the broader left, the DSA is often criticized for being too cozy with the Democratic Party — too reformist, not radical enough. That’s not the profile of a fringe insurgency. That’s a faction fighting over the soul of a coalition, which is exactly what healthy political movements do.

Is the DSA to the left of most Democrats? Yes. Are they far from Zionism? Absolutely. Are they antisemitic? I don’t believe that, and the evidence doesn’t support it. Does every DSA member want to abolish prisons and police? That’s simply not true, and saying so without qualification isn’t analysis — it’s a smear.

Here’s the bigger problem: if you want working-class voters, independents, and young people to turn out against GOP extremism, you can’t afford to treat every city’s political culture as a threat to be neutralized. Different communities lean differently on the democratic spectrum. That’s not a bug. Embrace the coalition or lose the election.

The goal is a New Deal-scale realignment — FDR-level ambition. That requires a big tent. And big tents don’t have litmus tests at the door.

Deutschmeister's avatar

I don't know much in the bigger picture of this world, but here are a few things I think I know, when I do not overthink them:

1) Sean Duffy always has been a mouth-breathing bully, among many others in the Wisconsin GOP tribe who were all-in on divide-and-conquer and other ways to make life worse for many fundamentally good people who deserved our thanks far more than their scorn. I'm happy to see that you have dissociated from them, Charlie. Consider it a badge of honor, for those people showed so little of it in their heart and their soul when their moment of opportunity came.

2) J.D. Vance will always be one of those people far more impressed with his own supposed intelligence than what it actually is. He really is not that smart of a person, with arguments all too easily deconstructed and a lack of historical awareness that expose both his youth and his inexperience with ideas that are bigger than his mind is capable of processing adequately. If he were a smarter person, he would recognize that he is being played by his boss, and to a declining level of approval even within MAGA circles. He sees trees. The rest of us see a forest.

3) The DSA Gegenreaktion (look it up) is hardly a surprise, a sort of letting out of the bottle the pressure that has been building up since the Escalator Moment in 2015 and the seemingly bottomless wellspring of abuse of power that MAGA embraces as somehow draining the swap (er, with the biggest swamp monster ever). Two things can be true at the same time: the worst extremes of it are no better than the worst extremes of the far right, and are counterproductive toward neutralizing the MAGA threat, while also reclaiming some of the high ground of classic liberalism being a rising tide that floats all boats where it has been driven underground by the train of thought that because the term "socialism" is attached to it, it must be inherently wrong and evil. (As someone with extensive life experience in Europe, don't get me started on how much better the infrastructure is over there on vital things such as public transportation, funding of quality education, and incentives for child-bearing and rearing that make us look utterly backward, when higher taxes well spent are a good investment rather than a drain of personal resources.) Surely there is a middle ground somewhere in this if people here have the courage to set labels aside, stay away from the jagged far edges of the road, and find common ground where it works for the biggest number of us, to the ultimate benefit of all.

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