It seems Peter Wehner is conflating two different ways of preaching from the pulpit.
It is acceptable, and often admirable, for a minister to preach for or against a particular policy, such as abortion or segregation. It is unprofessional and until the current administration against tax law for a minister to preach for or against a political party or a particular candidate or elected official.
Ministers absolutely should be preaching against the current anti-immigrant terror and abuses, especially for those who have never been convicted of a felony.
They must not attack Trump or other officials personally -- that is the role of the news media, Charlie Sykes, Anne Applebaum, The Bulwark, and civic leaders.
Always an admirer of Peter Wehner, but must correct one misperception. It was not the entire Catholic Church that caved.
The future Pope Pius XII agreed to shut down the Catholic Centrist Party in return for saving the Catholic Youth movement. In the 1930s parliamentary system, there were several large parties, all but the Centrist Party were on the Nazi right or the Marxist left. After the Centrist Party was gone, Hitler reneged, forcing boys into the Hitler Youth and the girls into the League of German Girls.
Pius XI had an American bishop write a diplomatic but powerful criticism of the Nazi movement. Pius XI died before he could issue the document. Pius XII "buried" it. It was rediscovered in the 1980s or '90s.
Cardinal Archbishops in Munich, Cologne, and Italy (e.g., the future John XXIII) quietly resisted Nazi atrocities to the extent they could across the 1930s, before the war made that impossible. Bishops in Slovakia, Croatia, and some other parts of eastern Europe supported the Nazis.
Pius XII supported bishops who resisted the Nazis AND those who supported the Nazis, and that was his guilt and failing. He believed he was saving the Church. Given the vast number of loyal Catholics in Nazi Europe, that seems lame.
ICE and DHS don't seem to realize that Jesus was Middle Eastern, so his skin color was darker than European white. If he was on the streets, they'd arrest and deport him.
And rump confuses Iceland and Greenland. ???WTF ??? NO one had the balls to correct him in real time. So what the Psychologists are saying is correct. Not only are the things he's saying and doing horrible, but we have a psychologically disturbed freak running this country. Is there anything that can be done or would ICE agents just show up at the door (or bust down the door) of anyone who really speaks up about this???
The "Moral Majority"--that dubious movement that was riding shotgun whilst you were a Republican--was a problem, but MAGA religious claims are absolutely bunk. Totally nonsense.
It’s no different than how the word of God was used by slave holders to justify what they were doing. So it has been here before. It’s just been a couple of generations since we actually had it front and center.
Thanks Charlie & Peter: Spot on. I keep thinking about the White Supremacist , Christian Nationalist. A mouth full of sermons and a heart full of hate. I often wonder about the young man lives from pay cheque to pay cheque who feels he is a Christian is the perfect target for these adds. He get wrapped up with folks of his own thinking , now he belongs , friends and all is well. I personally feel that most of the pastors are in it for the money. Anyone who is a real follower of Jesus would have nothing to do with ICE gestapo agents. ,
Charlie, I'm now listening to Bill Kristol interview with the eminent political thinker Francis Fukuyama. He too said it's time to use psychology to understand Trump. His letter to the Norway PM was "insane."
I wish every criticism of republicans had to include an elbow to the left. Especially when your recollection of antisemitism on the right is viewed through rose colored glasses. Growing up as a Gen X every instance from the US I experienced came from the right until after 9/11
I'd take exception to one part of Charlie's wonderful conversation with Pete Wehner: that their pessimism about the "Christian" response to Trump and his regime fails to deal with any Christian criticism beyond that of the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, it's true that Protestants lack powerful voices of opposition (and have too many powerful voices *celebrating* what's going on). Denominations like my own PC(USA) have shrunk so in influence that their statements can seem pathetic. But there's a vigorous and growing Christian resistance at the grass roots; local pastors and congregants (like Renee Good, a Presbyterian) are prominent in organizing resistance in Minneapolis and Chicago, and I hope stand at the ready when (eventually) they try to take my home town of Nashville. After all, The Confessing Church was a minority in Nazi Germany, but not negligible in preserving the witness of the faith. Jack Jenkins is doing energetic reporting on this.
Hey there Charlie. Thank you for this conversation with Peter. I found the discussion about white evangelical Christians that follow MAGA to be helpful, and also maddening. The lengths to which this facet of the MAGA political tribe will twist their beliefs and thinking in order to support and participate in violence and lawlessness is truly incredible. I understand more now, but still shake my head. I appreciate you.
Thank you, Charlie for bringing Peter Whener to us. So many good quotes to send to my conservative friend, especially Trump is not constrained by morality or reality! I will read the whole piece.
I've said it before. I'll say it again. MAGA has made Trump their savior. It's a cult.
It seems Peter Wehner is conflating two different ways of preaching from the pulpit.
It is acceptable, and often admirable, for a minister to preach for or against a particular policy, such as abortion or segregation. It is unprofessional and until the current administration against tax law for a minister to preach for or against a political party or a particular candidate or elected official.
Ministers absolutely should be preaching against the current anti-immigrant terror and abuses, especially for those who have never been convicted of a felony.
They must not attack Trump or other officials personally -- that is the role of the news media, Charlie Sykes, Anne Applebaum, The Bulwark, and civic leaders.
Always an admirer of Peter Wehner, but must correct one misperception. It was not the entire Catholic Church that caved.
The future Pope Pius XII agreed to shut down the Catholic Centrist Party in return for saving the Catholic Youth movement. In the 1930s parliamentary system, there were several large parties, all but the Centrist Party were on the Nazi right or the Marxist left. After the Centrist Party was gone, Hitler reneged, forcing boys into the Hitler Youth and the girls into the League of German Girls.
Pius XI had an American bishop write a diplomatic but powerful criticism of the Nazi movement. Pius XI died before he could issue the document. Pius XII "buried" it. It was rediscovered in the 1980s or '90s.
Cardinal Archbishops in Munich, Cologne, and Italy (e.g., the future John XXIII) quietly resisted Nazi atrocities to the extent they could across the 1930s, before the war made that impossible. Bishops in Slovakia, Croatia, and some other parts of eastern Europe supported the Nazis.
Pius XII supported bishops who resisted the Nazis AND those who supported the Nazis, and that was his guilt and failing. He believed he was saving the Church. Given the vast number of loyal Catholics in Nazi Europe, that seems lame.
ICE and DHS don't seem to realize that Jesus was Middle Eastern, so his skin color was darker than European white. If he was on the streets, they'd arrest and deport him.
And rump confuses Iceland and Greenland. ???WTF ??? NO one had the balls to correct him in real time. So what the Psychologists are saying is correct. Not only are the things he's saying and doing horrible, but we have a psychologically disturbed freak running this country. Is there anything that can be done or would ICE agents just show up at the door (or bust down the door) of anyone who really speaks up about this???
The "Moral Majority"--that dubious movement that was riding shotgun whilst you were a Republican--was a problem, but MAGA religious claims are absolutely bunk. Totally nonsense.
Outstanding interview Charlie.
It’s no different than how the word of God was used by slave holders to justify what they were doing. So it has been here before. It’s just been a couple of generations since we actually had it front and center.
Thanks Charlie & Peter: Spot on. I keep thinking about the White Supremacist , Christian Nationalist. A mouth full of sermons and a heart full of hate. I often wonder about the young man lives from pay cheque to pay cheque who feels he is a Christian is the perfect target for these adds. He get wrapped up with folks of his own thinking , now he belongs , friends and all is well. I personally feel that most of the pastors are in it for the money. Anyone who is a real follower of Jesus would have nothing to do with ICE gestapo agents. ,
Charlie, I'm now listening to Bill Kristol interview with the eminent political thinker Francis Fukuyama. He too said it's time to use psychology to understand Trump. His letter to the Norway PM was "insane."
I wish every criticism of republicans had to include an elbow to the left. Especially when your recollection of antisemitism on the right is viewed through rose colored glasses. Growing up as a Gen X every instance from the US I experienced came from the right until after 9/11
I'd take exception to one part of Charlie's wonderful conversation with Pete Wehner: that their pessimism about the "Christian" response to Trump and his regime fails to deal with any Christian criticism beyond that of the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, it's true that Protestants lack powerful voices of opposition (and have too many powerful voices *celebrating* what's going on). Denominations like my own PC(USA) have shrunk so in influence that their statements can seem pathetic. But there's a vigorous and growing Christian resistance at the grass roots; local pastors and congregants (like Renee Good, a Presbyterian) are prominent in organizing resistance in Minneapolis and Chicago, and I hope stand at the ready when (eventually) they try to take my home town of Nashville. After all, The Confessing Church was a minority in Nazi Germany, but not negligible in preserving the witness of the faith. Jack Jenkins is doing energetic reporting on this.
Please, please, keep your podcast going! It's helping stave off the fear...
Hey there Charlie. Thank you for this conversation with Peter. I found the discussion about white evangelical Christians that follow MAGA to be helpful, and also maddening. The lengths to which this facet of the MAGA political tribe will twist their beliefs and thinking in order to support and participate in violence and lawlessness is truly incredible. I understand more now, but still shake my head. I appreciate you.
I don't think they "believe the Christian teachings", they just use it as an excuse to get others to follow them.
Thank you, Charlie for bringing Peter Whener to us. So many good quotes to send to my conservative friend, especially Trump is not constrained by morality or reality! I will read the whole piece.
ALOHA... On the ONE FINGER COCONUT WIRELESS. ........