I recommend that people learn what 'trans' means. You might find it difficult to get a straight answer. The term does not identify a simple, single, condition, but many disorders across all age groups. Watch this video from the excellent Gender, A Wider Lense podcast to understand this.
Note also that supporters of men in women's sports say it doesn't happen much. Go to https://www.shewon.org/ for a list of over a thousand medals stolen by men in 35 sports
It was a long time passing before America was able to establish competitive interscholastic athletic opportunities for females that were essentially parallel to those for males. This has been a major success story. The last majority of Americans -- myself included -- believe it makes no sense to allow people born male who have reached puberty to compete in female sports. Even if they make a gender transition, with the accompanying hormone treatments, the physical differences they retain in size, strength and speed would destroy fair competition in female sports if these individuals were allowed to compete in them. For better or worse, probably more Americans pay attention to sports than to politics. For Democrats to say that people born as boys should not be competing in organized girls' sports would only align with common sense and the views of by far most voters on an issue that matters to them if you are on the wrong side of it. Attacks from the academic left will probably only help Democrats who have the sense to state the obvious.
Kind of funny really. The Republicans have been taken over by the "activist" base and now it is the Dems turn. There really needs to another alternative to either the Dems or the Republicans. I think we need to put our efforts onto changes to the way primaries are run. Because of Gerrymandering, we only elect crazies when crazies are the only ones to get through primary.
No, the folks eager to lecture climate deniers and anti-vaxxers as "anti-science" are fully on board with denial of the biological differences between the sexes vis a vis sports, or with proclaiming a status of 'transsexual" even in the absence of science-based genetic evidence for a non psychological cause or basis of the syndrome. Right after the Dobbs opinion was leaked, I attended a large rally at the Texas Capital. Somewhere about halfway through, the speakers hijacked the discussion onto the transgender matters. It was no longer a unifying pro-choice rally. The rally began hemorrhaging attendees. I was with a progressive lobbyist friend and his wife, and he said to me- "I feel sorry for those folks- but is this really an issue that should be front and center in an election year?" I said "I agree with you!" When I have attempted, on Democratic FB pages, to discuss the wisdom of giving pre-pubertal children puberty blockers (rather than letting nature takes it course), or when I question people born as biological males participating in womens sports, or when I did not give a high five to swimmer Lia Thompson in an off-topic post made by Mothers Against Greg Abbott, I have been called a bigot, a TERF, a heartless person vis a vis teen suicide, you name it. When the head of the Texas Democratic party suggested that the focus on the transgender issue was misguided and out of touch with how most people felt about the issue, he was "torn a new one"- but his only mistake actually was apologizing for saying that. Mr. Moulton is right, and he has a majority of people who agree with him but have been bludgeoned into silence.
Charlie--I suggest you (and your readers) check out the most recent "Secret Show" on The Bulwark, where Sarah, JVL, and Tim have an intelligent conversation on the topic of "Trans Stuff".
For those of you here not members of The Bulwark I think its Members Only, but well worth it.
One of my oldest friends once called me a bigot when I said I didn't want to share a bathroom with biological males. I told her I didn't want to share a bathroom with the man I was married to either, so I don't think it makes me a bigot. Honestly, I'm not so much worried about public restrooms. People go in, do their business and leave. It's not really a problem. But dressing rooms? I'm a swimmer. I've tried explaining to your former colleague JVL that in gym locker rooms there is usually not any private area for changing. To put on a swimsuit, you have to strip completely naked, in the middle of an open room. That's awkward enough around other women. I understand that this was one of the big issues with swimmer Lia Thomas who apparently hasn't had complete surgery (and I won't be more graphic than that.) Some of the other swimmers didn't feel comfortable changing in front of her - and I don't blame them! But as Mr. Moulton discovered YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THAT!
I doubt if actual trans women are even a problem. I'm sure that they are used to dealing with this issue, don't want to make themselves or anyone else uncomfortable, and wouldn't behave in an inappropriate manner. But our inability to address this issue honestly leaves us vulnerable to the provocateurs. I've seen the stories of biological men undressing in a women's locker room and when the women complained, they just say "I'm trans." Because that's all the defense they need! The gym employees are afraid of lawsuits, so the women are silenced. And it's not like you can PROVE someone is or is not trans. We don't license it. That would be WRONG. I'm not implying that trans people are perverts. I'm saying that perverts can pretend to be trans and that's their get out of jail free card.
The Fox fallacy applies here. Just because Nancy Mace and MTG are using this as an issue to rile up their fans doesn't mean that regular women don't have the right to change in privacy without being exposed to male genitalia.
Yes. The arguments in the last weeks had zero to do with policy, or economics, or governance. It was 100% cultural. They held similar abortion beliefs but it wasnt motivating. They were only half dismissive of any economic theories and half cared less. My fellow Trump suppprting Americans could care less about the rule of law or the institutions of government. But that transgender issue? The one blown out to massive proportions? I open the fridge and the man changed his 30 year old favorite beer from bud light to keystone. From the jump. Its the one thing. The one commonality. Is America so much more open minded then any other group of people. Na, we just tolerate each other for economic purposes. Once you witnessed The King of Beers being brought to its knees over a single monogramed can. You shoupd have recognized that it was going to be the lane.
Agreed, Charlie. I think the only thing to do is to stand firm as Seth Moulton has done. Not because our values have changed, but because the extreme position does more than ANYTHING to keep the issue blazing in the public consciousness in a negative way, instead of the humane and common sense way.
Thanks, Charlie. I’m with you. A sure sign that an issue needs discussion is a campaign by one side to shut off discussion. After seeing the disaster state legislatures and governors have made of this and the abortion issue, I’m opposed to government action that forbids or mandates any policy until people can discuss these questions without fear of “cancellation” and personal attacks. Misinformation is rife, and COVID era endorsements by medical groups with extremely little discussion are used instead of evidence. Thanks for presenting this issue for discussion.
It's simple, the Democrats are going to lose more elections if they can't have an honest conversation about these issues. If they lose elections they can't protect the transgender community because they won't have any political power (we certainly can't rely on the GOP to defend them!). Therefore I don't see it as "disloyal to vulnerable communities" to make comments such as Moulton has. I see it as political pragmatism which actually helps those communities more than adhering to progressive dogma in order to avoid getting cancelled by a twitter mob.
Charlie, you are talking about a middle way: an approach to gender identity that will satisfy diverse groups of voters, allow non-binary people to live in peace, and keep sports fair. This middle way exists, and could work, if anyone in power bothered to look for it as a partner with the other side. This is why Americans are angry and took the misguided step to hitch the wagon of American democracy to the engine of a fascist movement. We’ve had enough of extremism but have made the unfortunate decision to hand the reins to a man who doesn’t really care about any of it. You’ve been talking about illiberalism on both sides, and this issue is ground zero. If you can figure this out, why can’t our elected officials? Charlie for President!
In regards to Sean Moulton, why aren’t we highlighting the malignant process of shutting down free speech? Where is a news outlet demanding debate on these issues instead of shining a light on the ugly name calling and shaming - the products?
Do the “advocates” who engage in these cancel culture activities actually benefit the transgender community? Has anyone asked them (the transgender community) what is best? They need respect for choice and the ability to live peacefully as we all do, but the backlash seems to produce a worse outcome. Surely, there is a better way to do this.
My wife and I have a 33 y/o bio son who came out as trans 2 years ago. It literally saved her life. He went from a tortuous,suicidal existence to finally understanding who she really is. The suicidal thoughts and adjacent mental issues disappeared almost overnight. To us, this was truly a miracle. We have our kid back and we are ecstatic. She is a great parent of three children whereas before he was a ball of rage. They live in one of the few northern progressive, large Midwest cities so they are accepted as who they are in their little neighborhood. We still live in fear though as the rage of MAGA surrounds them outside of their urban area. When we visit we see many trans people working in retail, some older, some younger, but all basically accepted into the local culture. Very reminiscent of the gay struggles in the 60’s-90’s, it’s just the latest struggle for acceptance in the US. Yes there are factual outward physical differences in humans, but there are also inherent internal chemical differences affecting mental outlook and attitudes. This seems to be something that is rarely admitted and talked about. Like not believing in electricity because one cannot ‘see’ it. We have faith that this to shall pass (long after we are gone) but in our family she is the same kind,loving,amazing person she’s always been. We are very grateful she survived to get to this point.
I recommend that people learn what 'trans' means. You might find it difficult to get a straight answer. The term does not identify a simple, single, condition, but many disorders across all age groups. Watch this video from the excellent Gender, A Wider Lense podcast to understand this.
https://youtu.be/aHe5vbMj_YU?si=Hj4BUiYBvXGKAb-5
Note also that supporters of men in women's sports say it doesn't happen much. Go to https://www.shewon.org/ for a list of over a thousand medals stolen by men in 35 sports
My comment was meant to read "the vast majority" rather than "the last majority" of Americans. My apologies.
It was a long time passing before America was able to establish competitive interscholastic athletic opportunities for females that were essentially parallel to those for males. This has been a major success story. The last majority of Americans -- myself included -- believe it makes no sense to allow people born male who have reached puberty to compete in female sports. Even if they make a gender transition, with the accompanying hormone treatments, the physical differences they retain in size, strength and speed would destroy fair competition in female sports if these individuals were allowed to compete in them. For better or worse, probably more Americans pay attention to sports than to politics. For Democrats to say that people born as boys should not be competing in organized girls' sports would only align with common sense and the views of by far most voters on an issue that matters to them if you are on the wrong side of it. Attacks from the academic left will probably only help Democrats who have the sense to state the obvious.
Kind of funny really. The Republicans have been taken over by the "activist" base and now it is the Dems turn. There really needs to another alternative to either the Dems or the Republicans. I think we need to put our efforts onto changes to the way primaries are run. Because of Gerrymandering, we only elect crazies when crazies are the only ones to get through primary.
No, the folks eager to lecture climate deniers and anti-vaxxers as "anti-science" are fully on board with denial of the biological differences between the sexes vis a vis sports, or with proclaiming a status of 'transsexual" even in the absence of science-based genetic evidence for a non psychological cause or basis of the syndrome. Right after the Dobbs opinion was leaked, I attended a large rally at the Texas Capital. Somewhere about halfway through, the speakers hijacked the discussion onto the transgender matters. It was no longer a unifying pro-choice rally. The rally began hemorrhaging attendees. I was with a progressive lobbyist friend and his wife, and he said to me- "I feel sorry for those folks- but is this really an issue that should be front and center in an election year?" I said "I agree with you!" When I have attempted, on Democratic FB pages, to discuss the wisdom of giving pre-pubertal children puberty blockers (rather than letting nature takes it course), or when I question people born as biological males participating in womens sports, or when I did not give a high five to swimmer Lia Thompson in an off-topic post made by Mothers Against Greg Abbott, I have been called a bigot, a TERF, a heartless person vis a vis teen suicide, you name it. When the head of the Texas Democratic party suggested that the focus on the transgender issue was misguided and out of touch with how most people felt about the issue, he was "torn a new one"- but his only mistake actually was apologizing for saying that. Mr. Moulton is right, and he has a majority of people who agree with him but have been bludgeoned into silence.
Charlie--I suggest you (and your readers) check out the most recent "Secret Show" on The Bulwark, where Sarah, JVL, and Tim have an intelligent conversation on the topic of "Trans Stuff".
For those of you here not members of The Bulwark I think its Members Only, but well worth it.
One of my oldest friends once called me a bigot when I said I didn't want to share a bathroom with biological males. I told her I didn't want to share a bathroom with the man I was married to either, so I don't think it makes me a bigot. Honestly, I'm not so much worried about public restrooms. People go in, do their business and leave. It's not really a problem. But dressing rooms? I'm a swimmer. I've tried explaining to your former colleague JVL that in gym locker rooms there is usually not any private area for changing. To put on a swimsuit, you have to strip completely naked, in the middle of an open room. That's awkward enough around other women. I understand that this was one of the big issues with swimmer Lia Thomas who apparently hasn't had complete surgery (and I won't be more graphic than that.) Some of the other swimmers didn't feel comfortable changing in front of her - and I don't blame them! But as Mr. Moulton discovered YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THAT!
I doubt if actual trans women are even a problem. I'm sure that they are used to dealing with this issue, don't want to make themselves or anyone else uncomfortable, and wouldn't behave in an inappropriate manner. But our inability to address this issue honestly leaves us vulnerable to the provocateurs. I've seen the stories of biological men undressing in a women's locker room and when the women complained, they just say "I'm trans." Because that's all the defense they need! The gym employees are afraid of lawsuits, so the women are silenced. And it's not like you can PROVE someone is or is not trans. We don't license it. That would be WRONG. I'm not implying that trans people are perverts. I'm saying that perverts can pretend to be trans and that's their get out of jail free card.
The Fox fallacy applies here. Just because Nancy Mace and MTG are using this as an issue to rile up their fans doesn't mean that regular women don't have the right to change in privacy without being exposed to male genitalia.
Yes. The arguments in the last weeks had zero to do with policy, or economics, or governance. It was 100% cultural. They held similar abortion beliefs but it wasnt motivating. They were only half dismissive of any economic theories and half cared less. My fellow Trump suppprting Americans could care less about the rule of law or the institutions of government. But that transgender issue? The one blown out to massive proportions? I open the fridge and the man changed his 30 year old favorite beer from bud light to keystone. From the jump. Its the one thing. The one commonality. Is America so much more open minded then any other group of people. Na, we just tolerate each other for economic purposes. Once you witnessed The King of Beers being brought to its knees over a single monogramed can. You shoupd have recognized that it was going to be the lane.
Agreed, Charlie. I think the only thing to do is to stand firm as Seth Moulton has done. Not because our values have changed, but because the extreme position does more than ANYTHING to keep the issue blazing in the public consciousness in a negative way, instead of the humane and common sense way.
Thanks, Charlie. I’m with you. A sure sign that an issue needs discussion is a campaign by one side to shut off discussion. After seeing the disaster state legislatures and governors have made of this and the abortion issue, I’m opposed to government action that forbids or mandates any policy until people can discuss these questions without fear of “cancellation” and personal attacks. Misinformation is rife, and COVID era endorsements by medical groups with extremely little discussion are used instead of evidence. Thanks for presenting this issue for discussion.
No one’s trying to shut down discussion.
You aren’t impacted personally by this.
It's simple, the Democrats are going to lose more elections if they can't have an honest conversation about these issues. If they lose elections they can't protect the transgender community because they won't have any political power (we certainly can't rely on the GOP to defend them!). Therefore I don't see it as "disloyal to vulnerable communities" to make comments such as Moulton has. I see it as political pragmatism which actually helps those communities more than adhering to progressive dogma in order to avoid getting cancelled by a twitter mob.
Basically... https://substack.com/@aaronrupar/note/c-78637547?r=2vls9n
Do we have too? Will it make a difference to anyone? Talk about it differently Charlie.
Charlie, you are talking about a middle way: an approach to gender identity that will satisfy diverse groups of voters, allow non-binary people to live in peace, and keep sports fair. This middle way exists, and could work, if anyone in power bothered to look for it as a partner with the other side. This is why Americans are angry and took the misguided step to hitch the wagon of American democracy to the engine of a fascist movement. We’ve had enough of extremism but have made the unfortunate decision to hand the reins to a man who doesn’t really care about any of it. You’ve been talking about illiberalism on both sides, and this issue is ground zero. If you can figure this out, why can’t our elected officials? Charlie for President!
Two points:
In regards to Sean Moulton, why aren’t we highlighting the malignant process of shutting down free speech? Where is a news outlet demanding debate on these issues instead of shining a light on the ugly name calling and shaming - the products?
Do the “advocates” who engage in these cancel culture activities actually benefit the transgender community? Has anyone asked them (the transgender community) what is best? They need respect for choice and the ability to live peacefully as we all do, but the backlash seems to produce a worse outcome. Surely, there is a better way to do this.
Sorry, it is Seth, not Sean.
My wife and I have a 33 y/o bio son who came out as trans 2 years ago. It literally saved her life. He went from a tortuous,suicidal existence to finally understanding who she really is. The suicidal thoughts and adjacent mental issues disappeared almost overnight. To us, this was truly a miracle. We have our kid back and we are ecstatic. She is a great parent of three children whereas before he was a ball of rage. They live in one of the few northern progressive, large Midwest cities so they are accepted as who they are in their little neighborhood. We still live in fear though as the rage of MAGA surrounds them outside of their urban area. When we visit we see many trans people working in retail, some older, some younger, but all basically accepted into the local culture. Very reminiscent of the gay struggles in the 60’s-90’s, it’s just the latest struggle for acceptance in the US. Yes there are factual outward physical differences in humans, but there are also inherent internal chemical differences affecting mental outlook and attitudes. This seems to be something that is rarely admitted and talked about. Like not believing in electricity because one cannot ‘see’ it. We have faith that this to shall pass (long after we are gone) but in our family she is the same kind,loving,amazing person she’s always been. We are very grateful she survived to get to this point.