How much vitriol has been pointed at Biden for the past 6 months. Could it just be that the man decided to save his son, and that he does not give the first flying fuck what anyone else thinks?
Damn Charlie, I know you're right but I can't be mad at President Biden. What they have done to his son publicly is indefensible. But what he has shown is no human is perfect. Neither Biden or Trump. But some humans are just plain bad humans such as Trump. In the end, each will be judged by the totality of their deeds. Biden wins that comparison hands down.
Charlie — I 100% disagree with your opinion on the pardon of Hunter Biden. Let’s face it — with the likes of Kash Patel at FBI, Pam Bondi at DOJ, and Trump as their masters — they would have gone after a Hunter Biden with a new relish.
I also agree with Biden issuing pardons to people who haven’t committed any crimes, like Liz Cheney, Anthony Fauci, Michael Cohen, Cassidy Hutchinson, etc, because Trump’s revenge tour will go after all of them.
Charlie I had to go straight to the dogs today. I am very much in favor of Joe Biden using every power possible to disrupt the incoming menace. Winter may be coming so we need a Winter Soldier. I don’t care what the MAGAs say or the other pious pearl clutchers opining that “he lied to us!” What’s done is done. Let’s move on and strew the road to the WhiteHouse with broken glass and sharp tacks whatever the outcome.
Disagree with you Charlie. Why do Democrats have to continue to respect the norms? Chump and the Republicans broke the norms and set the precedent. Chump refused to concede his loss in 2020 (like a whiny bitch, I might add), dividing the nation and sabotaging Biden's presidency. Respecting norms got us nowhere. Respecting norms got us Merrick Garland. Republicans broke the norms and crucified Hunter Biden using their elected office to harass and investigate him as a proxy for their corrupt effort to undermine Joe Biden's presidency. Chump and the Republicans have relentlessly attacked our institutions of democracy, and have thrown the rule book in the gutter. For Democrats to continue to play by those rules in the face of this contempt is absurd. Biden should go a lot further than he has between now and January 20.
Not all norms are created equally. Abandoning one doesn't justify abandoning another. Joe Biden pardoning his son doesn't justify Trump turning troops against American citizens, for example. Each norm, value, or ethical standard must be evaluated on its own. Charlie made several arguments why this particular case of norms abandonment didn't help Democrats and only has helped Republicans further.
Nevertheless, Biden didn't say he was going to abandon useless norms and pardon his son for months on end. No, he said he was going to HOLD the norm and NOT pardon his son for months on end. This wasn't just walking away from a self-defeating norm. This was reneging on a promise not to abandon norms after having extolled the virtues of upholding such norms and the greatness of such a president who wouldn't violate them.
We must strive for our ideals and my ideal does not include a president that lies to me about his own character or values. Just because many politicians lie doesn't mean we no longer care about it, unless of course you're fine with the lies. I'm not. In a contest between Biden and Trump, Biden is better, without question. In a contest between Biden and someone who wouldn't like about their character or values, assuming all else is equal (e.g., neither is a rapist, for example), I'll choose the honest person over Biden.
The excuses wielded by the pardon defenders are part of an increasingly cynical nihilism that doesn't bode well for our future.
Respectfully, your argument glosses over the fact that ALL of the norms have been broken by Chump and the Republicans who pledge blind allegiance to him (at the expense of their sworn oath to our Constitution). In that regard, I'm afraid that all norms are indeed equal at this point. I don't buy the argument that this pardon had or will have any effect on what Republicans will do going forward. They’ve trampled all norms and undermined our democratic institutions without Any prior justification since 2016 (or 2015, actually), and that ship has sailed. Will they use it as a bad faith post-hoc justification for the malfeasance they had already planned?? Sure. I'll grant you that. But that doesn't change anything with respect to what they already intend to do.
Joe said what he said about Hunter. But circumstances in life and politics are anything but static. As others have observed, the miscreants Chump intends to install to complete his entire corrupt transformation of our democratic institutions are a threat to us all, but their vitriol has been particularly trained on the Biden family (and especially Hunter) since Biden announced his candidacy in 2018.
I am an honest person and I expect honesty from those with whom I deal directly and from our elected officials (and un-elected officials such as Supreme Court justices). Do you recall All of the Republican SCOTUS nominees testifying--under oath--that Roe was precedent and the established law of the land, and promising--under oath--to respect that precedent? (Same goes for Chevron for that matter). I expect honesty, indeed, but let's not be Pollyannish about our new reality.
"Respectfully, your argument glosses over the fact that ALL of the norms have been broken by Chump and the Republicans who pledge blind allegiance to him (at the expense of their sworn oath to our Constitution). In that regard, I'm afraid that all norms are indeed equal at this point."
I'm sure that not every literal norm has been broken, but when speaking of their lack of equality, I'm not referring to whether or not they're being adhered to. I'm referring to the value and importance of a particular norm. Violating one norm doesn't mean violating another norm is of equal offense or consequence.
"Will they use it as a bad faith post-hoc justification for the malfeasance they had already planned?? Sure. I'll grant you that. But that doesn't change anything with respect to what they already intend to do."
It's not about what Republicans will do. It's about convincing people that we don't want anyone doing it. You can't make such arguments while doing the things you say should be stopped.
"I am an honest person and I expect honesty from those with whom I deal directly and from our elected officials (and un-elected officials such as Supreme Court justices). Do you recall All of the Republican SCOTUS nominees testifying--under oath--that Roe was precedent and the established law of the land, and promising--under oath--to respect that precedent? (Same goes for Chevron for that matter). I expect honesty, indeed, but let's not be Pollyannish about our new reality."
This is straight-up whataboutism. Never mind what SCOTUS justices said. We're talking about Joe Biden and his honesty. We're talking about the POTUS. Not that SCOTUS justices should be any less honest, but there are literally 8 more of them than there are POTUSes. If there's any one person that should be held to the highest standard, it's the most powerful person occupying the most powerful office in the history of mankind. It's not Pollyannaish to demand better from our elected officials, let alone this one most-powerful person.
It's not "whataboutism"... it's about a level playing field, and playing by the same rules (whatever those "rules" may be). It's about fairness and equity.
I respect your dedication to principles of ethics and honesty, but I firmly believe that adherence to the notion that one can only maintain their integrity by modeling behaviors that the Republicans have totally abandoned (and for which they have no regard) is a fool's errand. I will point, once again, to Merrick Garland. He is emblematic of this ideal, and it has not changed the Republican's baseless criticism of him one iota. And we will all now suffer the consequences.
FWIW, I am sure there are many issues about which you and I likely agree. But it appears that we will have to "agree to disagree" on this one.
And I'll add that I am both cynical and nihilistic about our future at this point. I don't want to be, but I'm a realist. And if Dems (and people who have regard for others, generally) don't start fighting like our lives are at stake, which may involve breaking a promise or two made during more innocent times, then we are all f*cked. And that's a fact.
The pull to nihilism and cynicism is strong, I'll give you that. I struggle to keep my head above water at times, but I've not get given up. Perhaps I will look back and see myself as an idealistic fool, but I'm not yet ready to cede this ground.
Thanks for the respectful disagreement. All is not yet lost.
Good for Joe. Pardon anyone else that has been or could be the victim of tRump/maga retribution. Throw out the Marquis of Queensbury rule book and start brawling. Joe Biden owes no one anything more than he’s already given.
There were other avenues to address concerns about his son than a blanket pardon for a decade's worth of any and all crimes against the US his son may have committed. And if he really thought the Justice System couldn't be trusted and that it has become infected by politics, he had months and months before the election to make that known. But no, he trusted the system, *his* justice system, to find the proper outcome and he promised, "on his word as a Biden", not to interfere, a promise he repeated even post-election.
Cry me a river when the people that beat police and attempted to overthrow the election are pardoned and walk out of prison. Virtually all experts say Hunter’s crimes amounted to fineable offenses. Profiteering off daddy’s name is not illegal, as a matter of fact, it’s an accepted perk for politicians and has been for ever. I hope he proactively pardons all those Republicans who had the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the fascistic former potus, because they WILL be targeted by this incoming Gestapo DOJ and administration.
Biden did the righteous thing. and I am so sure he wrestled with it for months. and I am also sure, because of the man he is, that announcing it would be one of the most difficult things he has said in public. I feel for him - as a parent and as a human being who has been promised that he and his family will be prosecuted on day 1 of new admin. who the hell whouldn't pardon their child with those kind of threats. like Rachael Maddow says, Biden could have appointed him to ambassador of France (after his pardon). hmmm, didn't trump do that with all his incoming appointees? yep, he did and is still shocking the rest of the 99% of us.
So Biden wasn't as egregious as Trump, therefore we have no criticism? As long as someone isn't the worst, then all is well? These aren't arguments for validity or righteousness of Joe's actions. They're arguments for why we should ignore Joe's actions. We should not.
This is very well argued and laid out, I find little fault in it. So while we can as a third party observer take this position that Biden shouldn't have pardoned his son, looking at it from the perspective of a father, I can't fault him. In the end, family comes first. The institutions will be fine and even if the institutions erode, they would have eroded without Biden pardoning his son
Stop the higher than mighty bullshit and call out how dangerous and corrupt the incoming administration is. Biden did the right thing. In fact he should do a blanket pardon for everybody on Kash Patel and Trumps revenge list and tell the world why. Then pardon Trump and go on TV live and tell the world he is pardoning Trump because the Supreme Court already did and this way the GOP who now control all the checks and balances will be on the record to keep an eye on every move of the second round of Trump with a clean slate and no baggage. They can then prove they are good guys or hang themselves with vengefulness and corruption.
Hunter hasn't done things others couldn't get away with. Name one person prosecuted for lying he didn't take drugs on a gun permit. Name one person who went to jail after paying back taxes plus fraud penalties and interest. The only reason any of this happened is because the MAGAs couldn't find anything to pin on his father. If the Orange Snake and his cronies continue to go after Hunter, all the press will be interested in is Hunter's trial, etc., and ignoring every single crime that the Snake and his handpicked thieves and liars in his cabinet will commit. Hunter is already old forgotten news, which was the point of the pardon. Maybe now, the media can concentrate on the total unqualified "experts" the Snake wants in control of the government.
Charlie I respect your writing usually but in this case you gave the American citizens too little credit. The incoming administration is out for revenge and this President saved his only living son. You as a journalist have the opportunity to tell the story of how indeed KashPatel could and desires to use the DOJ as a weapon. Focus on that and do the country a true favor.
Who gives a fuck about Hunter Biden. The media needs to focus on real threats to American citizens and why this incoming administration is dangerous as shit! Why a minority of citizens were mislead by propaganda to reinstate a facist felon. If you’re going to talk about Hunter then make it clear how Trump and Kash Patel planned to weaponize the DOJ!
God, Charlie, now *you*? You were really growing on me, but now... I'll be polite and not say it out loud, but please do imagine. And I'm growing a healthy distrust of "former" conservatives. It appears that most of you still have that flotsam in your heads.
He didn't get a pass. He paid the taxes, the fraud penalties and interest. Just like hundreds of other people who got caught and paid the taxes, penalties and interest.
Trump circumvented the normal pardon process & pardoned his cronies & war criminals. He’s promised to pardon the J6 rioters when he becomes president again. He’s faced no repercussions for any of this. I don’t think Biden’s pardon of his son is going to be anything of great consequence in the long term.
How much vitriol has been pointed at Biden for the past 6 months. Could it just be that the man decided to save his son, and that he does not give the first flying fuck what anyone else thinks?
I think this is a crock of shit!
Damn Charlie, I know you're right but I can't be mad at President Biden. What they have done to his son publicly is indefensible. But what he has shown is no human is perfect. Neither Biden or Trump. But some humans are just plain bad humans such as Trump. In the end, each will be judged by the totality of their deeds. Biden wins that comparison hands down.
Charlie — I 100% disagree with your opinion on the pardon of Hunter Biden. Let’s face it — with the likes of Kash Patel at FBI, Pam Bondi at DOJ, and Trump as their masters — they would have gone after a Hunter Biden with a new relish.
I also agree with Biden issuing pardons to people who haven’t committed any crimes, like Liz Cheney, Anthony Fauci, Michael Cohen, Cassidy Hutchinson, etc, because Trump’s revenge tour will go after all of them.
Charlie I had to go straight to the dogs today. I am very much in favor of Joe Biden using every power possible to disrupt the incoming menace. Winter may be coming so we need a Winter Soldier. I don’t care what the MAGAs say or the other pious pearl clutchers opining that “he lied to us!” What’s done is done. Let’s move on and strew the road to the WhiteHouse with broken glass and sharp tacks whatever the outcome.
Disagree with you Charlie. Why do Democrats have to continue to respect the norms? Chump and the Republicans broke the norms and set the precedent. Chump refused to concede his loss in 2020 (like a whiny bitch, I might add), dividing the nation and sabotaging Biden's presidency. Respecting norms got us nowhere. Respecting norms got us Merrick Garland. Republicans broke the norms and crucified Hunter Biden using their elected office to harass and investigate him as a proxy for their corrupt effort to undermine Joe Biden's presidency. Chump and the Republicans have relentlessly attacked our institutions of democracy, and have thrown the rule book in the gutter. For Democrats to continue to play by those rules in the face of this contempt is absurd. Biden should go a lot further than he has between now and January 20.
Not all norms are created equally. Abandoning one doesn't justify abandoning another. Joe Biden pardoning his son doesn't justify Trump turning troops against American citizens, for example. Each norm, value, or ethical standard must be evaluated on its own. Charlie made several arguments why this particular case of norms abandonment didn't help Democrats and only has helped Republicans further.
Nevertheless, Biden didn't say he was going to abandon useless norms and pardon his son for months on end. No, he said he was going to HOLD the norm and NOT pardon his son for months on end. This wasn't just walking away from a self-defeating norm. This was reneging on a promise not to abandon norms after having extolled the virtues of upholding such norms and the greatness of such a president who wouldn't violate them.
We must strive for our ideals and my ideal does not include a president that lies to me about his own character or values. Just because many politicians lie doesn't mean we no longer care about it, unless of course you're fine with the lies. I'm not. In a contest between Biden and Trump, Biden is better, without question. In a contest between Biden and someone who wouldn't like about their character or values, assuming all else is equal (e.g., neither is a rapist, for example), I'll choose the honest person over Biden.
The excuses wielded by the pardon defenders are part of an increasingly cynical nihilism that doesn't bode well for our future.
Respectfully, your argument glosses over the fact that ALL of the norms have been broken by Chump and the Republicans who pledge blind allegiance to him (at the expense of their sworn oath to our Constitution). In that regard, I'm afraid that all norms are indeed equal at this point. I don't buy the argument that this pardon had or will have any effect on what Republicans will do going forward. They’ve trampled all norms and undermined our democratic institutions without Any prior justification since 2016 (or 2015, actually), and that ship has sailed. Will they use it as a bad faith post-hoc justification for the malfeasance they had already planned?? Sure. I'll grant you that. But that doesn't change anything with respect to what they already intend to do.
Joe said what he said about Hunter. But circumstances in life and politics are anything but static. As others have observed, the miscreants Chump intends to install to complete his entire corrupt transformation of our democratic institutions are a threat to us all, but their vitriol has been particularly trained on the Biden family (and especially Hunter) since Biden announced his candidacy in 2018.
I am an honest person and I expect honesty from those with whom I deal directly and from our elected officials (and un-elected officials such as Supreme Court justices). Do you recall All of the Republican SCOTUS nominees testifying--under oath--that Roe was precedent and the established law of the land, and promising--under oath--to respect that precedent? (Same goes for Chevron for that matter). I expect honesty, indeed, but let's not be Pollyannish about our new reality.
"Respectfully, your argument glosses over the fact that ALL of the norms have been broken by Chump and the Republicans who pledge blind allegiance to him (at the expense of their sworn oath to our Constitution). In that regard, I'm afraid that all norms are indeed equal at this point."
I'm sure that not every literal norm has been broken, but when speaking of their lack of equality, I'm not referring to whether or not they're being adhered to. I'm referring to the value and importance of a particular norm. Violating one norm doesn't mean violating another norm is of equal offense or consequence.
"Will they use it as a bad faith post-hoc justification for the malfeasance they had already planned?? Sure. I'll grant you that. But that doesn't change anything with respect to what they already intend to do."
It's not about what Republicans will do. It's about convincing people that we don't want anyone doing it. You can't make such arguments while doing the things you say should be stopped.
"I am an honest person and I expect honesty from those with whom I deal directly and from our elected officials (and un-elected officials such as Supreme Court justices). Do you recall All of the Republican SCOTUS nominees testifying--under oath--that Roe was precedent and the established law of the land, and promising--under oath--to respect that precedent? (Same goes for Chevron for that matter). I expect honesty, indeed, but let's not be Pollyannish about our new reality."
This is straight-up whataboutism. Never mind what SCOTUS justices said. We're talking about Joe Biden and his honesty. We're talking about the POTUS. Not that SCOTUS justices should be any less honest, but there are literally 8 more of them than there are POTUSes. If there's any one person that should be held to the highest standard, it's the most powerful person occupying the most powerful office in the history of mankind. It's not Pollyannaish to demand better from our elected officials, let alone this one most-powerful person.
It's not "whataboutism"... it's about a level playing field, and playing by the same rules (whatever those "rules" may be). It's about fairness and equity.
I respect your dedication to principles of ethics and honesty, but I firmly believe that adherence to the notion that one can only maintain their integrity by modeling behaviors that the Republicans have totally abandoned (and for which they have no regard) is a fool's errand. I will point, once again, to Merrick Garland. He is emblematic of this ideal, and it has not changed the Republican's baseless criticism of him one iota. And we will all now suffer the consequences.
FWIW, I am sure there are many issues about which you and I likely agree. But it appears that we will have to "agree to disagree" on this one.
And I'll add that I am both cynical and nihilistic about our future at this point. I don't want to be, but I'm a realist. And if Dems (and people who have regard for others, generally) don't start fighting like our lives are at stake, which may involve breaking a promise or two made during more innocent times, then we are all f*cked. And that's a fact.
The pull to nihilism and cynicism is strong, I'll give you that. I struggle to keep my head above water at times, but I've not get given up. Perhaps I will look back and see myself as an idealistic fool, but I'm not yet ready to cede this ground.
Thanks for the respectful disagreement. All is not yet lost.
Good for Joe. Pardon anyone else that has been or could be the victim of tRump/maga retribution. Throw out the Marquis of Queensbury rule book and start brawling. Joe Biden owes no one anything more than he’s already given.
He's the goddamn President of the United States. He owes every single one of his citizens every single day he's in office. Period.
He doesn’t owe you his only son to the sacrificial maga gods.
There were other avenues to address concerns about his son than a blanket pardon for a decade's worth of any and all crimes against the US his son may have committed. And if he really thought the Justice System couldn't be trusted and that it has become infected by politics, he had months and months before the election to make that known. But no, he trusted the system, *his* justice system, to find the proper outcome and he promised, "on his word as a Biden", not to interfere, a promise he repeated even post-election.
Cry me a river when the people that beat police and attempted to overthrow the election are pardoned and walk out of prison. Virtually all experts say Hunter’s crimes amounted to fineable offenses. Profiteering off daddy’s name is not illegal, as a matter of fact, it’s an accepted perk for politicians and has been for ever. I hope he proactively pardons all those Republicans who had the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the fascistic former potus, because they WILL be targeted by this incoming Gestapo DOJ and administration.
Biden did the righteous thing. and I am so sure he wrestled with it for months. and I am also sure, because of the man he is, that announcing it would be one of the most difficult things he has said in public. I feel for him - as a parent and as a human being who has been promised that he and his family will be prosecuted on day 1 of new admin. who the hell whouldn't pardon their child with those kind of threats. like Rachael Maddow says, Biden could have appointed him to ambassador of France (after his pardon). hmmm, didn't trump do that with all his incoming appointees? yep, he did and is still shocking the rest of the 99% of us.
So Biden wasn't as egregious as Trump, therefore we have no criticism? As long as someone isn't the worst, then all is well? These aren't arguments for validity or righteousness of Joe's actions. They're arguments for why we should ignore Joe's actions. We should not.
i don't know how you can compare ANYBODY to trump. with this post it's easy to figure
out that i am not ignoring it. so this is my argument - which as of today - i am entitled to.
For a while I've been pondering which Shakespearean tragic character is the most apposite for Biden.
He was Willy Loman all along.
This is very well argued and laid out, I find little fault in it. So while we can as a third party observer take this position that Biden shouldn't have pardoned his son, looking at it from the perspective of a father, I can't fault him. In the end, family comes first. The institutions will be fine and even if the institutions erode, they would have eroded without Biden pardoning his son
Frankly, at this point, I would be happy if Joe Biden was in prison.
For What crime?
Why? For what?
Stop the higher than mighty bullshit and call out how dangerous and corrupt the incoming administration is. Biden did the right thing. In fact he should do a blanket pardon for everybody on Kash Patel and Trumps revenge list and tell the world why. Then pardon Trump and go on TV live and tell the world he is pardoning Trump because the Supreme Court already did and this way the GOP who now control all the checks and balances will be on the record to keep an eye on every move of the second round of Trump with a clean slate and no baggage. They can then prove they are good guys or hang themselves with vengefulness and corruption.
Why is pardoning his son, who literally committed multiple crimes, the right thing? So he doesn't get harassed more?
Jesus. Just do the time for the crime. It's not hard, and Hunter Biden has done things I couldn't get away with.
Hunter hasn't done things others couldn't get away with. Name one person prosecuted for lying he didn't take drugs on a gun permit. Name one person who went to jail after paying back taxes plus fraud penalties and interest. The only reason any of this happened is because the MAGAs couldn't find anything to pin on his father. If the Orange Snake and his cronies continue to go after Hunter, all the press will be interested in is Hunter's trial, etc., and ignoring every single crime that the Snake and his handpicked thieves and liars in his cabinet will commit. Hunter is already old forgotten news, which was the point of the pardon. Maybe now, the media can concentrate on the total unqualified "experts" the Snake wants in control of the government.
Are you aware that using crack cocaine is actually a crime?
So is using weed in many states. And Don Jr always looks like he's on something. Hunter has been clean for years. What's your point?
I disagree. You can’t fight trump or the republican administration by being noble. The democrats are always the Boy Scouts and are left behind.
Then Democrats are just as corrupt as Republicans, so why vote for them?
Vote so your tax dollars help people instead of corporations or billionaires.
Charlie I respect your writing usually but in this case you gave the American citizens too little credit. The incoming administration is out for revenge and this President saved his only living son. You as a journalist have the opportunity to tell the story of how indeed KashPatel could and desires to use the DOJ as a weapon. Focus on that and do the country a true favor.
The president's only living son committed multiple crimes! He should not be saved for the consequences of his own actions!
When I started supporting Biden over Trump, I did not realize that I was signing up to the "Save Hunter Biden Project."
Who gives a fuck about Hunter Biden. The media needs to focus on real threats to American citizens and why this incoming administration is dangerous as shit! Why a minority of citizens were mislead by propaganda to reinstate a facist felon. If you’re going to talk about Hunter then make it clear how Trump and Kash Patel planned to weaponize the DOJ!
God, Charlie, now *you*? You were really growing on me, but now... I'll be polite and not say it out loud, but please do imagine. And I'm growing a healthy distrust of "former" conservatives. It appears that most of you still have that flotsam in your heads.
Here is the correct legal view on this matter. You can't hold a candle to former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance. https://open.substack.com/pub/joycevance/p/the-week-ahead-fa9?r=yzry&utm_medium=ios
I agree one hundred percent! So far only Rick Wilson and Adam Kinzinger have not disappointed me.
What a great argument. Biden's son gets a pass from breaking tax law, but I don't, because I am not a crackhead. Thanks, Joyce Vance.
He didn't get a pass. He paid the taxes, the fraud penalties and interest. Just like hundreds of other people who got caught and paid the taxes, penalties and interest.
Trump circumvented the normal pardon process & pardoned his cronies & war criminals. He’s promised to pardon the J6 rioters when he becomes president again. He’s faced no repercussions for any of this. I don’t think Biden’s pardon of his son is going to be anything of great consequence in the long term.