As a former elementary school principal, I can say that the scenario Charlie presents regarding ICE agents showing up at a school is well within the realm of possibility, and probably within the realm of likelihood, given what we have seen recently.
Of course, it’s easy for me to opine from my perspective as a retiree, but the established legal standard when I was a principal was that the building principal was, in fact, an agent of the state government, and he/she had complete authority and control over who could be granted access to any student while they were in the principal’s care (“in loco parentis”), as well as the authority to set the conditions for that access (e.g., principal or school counselor present with the student, etc.).
Believe me, I have been involved in some contentious situations involving requests by outside agents to interview students. In all of those instances I was guided by my responsibility to always act in what I deemed to be “the best interest of the student.” It is my understanding and belief that this is the core concept in the legally established DUTY of a school principal to act “in loco parentis” (i.e., in the place of a parent).
So, from my relatively safe perch of retirement, I will say that if I were faced with ICE agents demanding to see a student in my care I honestly believe I would inform the agents that I did not think it would be in my student’s best interest to have his/her day interrupted - and probably be emotionally stressed, if not absolutely traumatized - so, I would not facilitate their efforts. I would refer them to the superintendent’s office for further discussion. And I tend to think that if they wanted to use strong arm tactics and force their way down the hall to enter the classroom I would take additional steps to prevent them from doing so ….. I can think of some possible actions I would take, but I won’t hypothesize beyond that.
One last note that is worth considering in this current climate involves the role of a “school resource officer” in all of this. Resource officers are generally members of local police departments or sheriff’s offices, and their responsibilities and roles in such a confrontation is another important consideration, imo. And it is one I am not equipped to offer an educated opinion about at this time.
I wish all school personnel the best as I am sure many of them will regrettably be faced with scenarios like this over the coming months and years.
ICE agents could go fuck themselves. I would refuse access in all cases, call ACLU or any other public legal aid services, and hide the "deportees" until the lawyers arrived.
I feel it’s almost like the modern day “First they came for the socialists..”
Well done.
And for the record (not that I think you read all this but) I have been listening to you on Bulwark in the anti-trump years. Tho I had read your conservative pieces for several years prior so I knew who you were. I can’t say we always saw eye to eye but you are and always were an earnest debater which I respect. Sense of humor is good to boot.
Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to be realistic. Do I have the money to defend myself or pay bail, which I will have to do if I'm arrested even if charges are later dropped. It's a problem. Am I willing to be called a terrorist and potentially be sent to a black site in an unknown location where I will never have contact with my family again. Do the old Bush laws that allowed for places like GITMO apply here. I don't think anyone knows. And if they can bypass due process....it's something to think about.
Hi Charlie, I've likely said enough today...as we're voting in Canada for a Prime Minister to stand up [or ELBOWS UP] to your Leader and his Administration.
I read Trumps recent take on Canada again through an X Rant that I received through the Meidas Network that I subscribe to also. Adam Kinzinger is on my list with Heather Cox Richardson...so I can be well rounded on the side of Democracy.
So below is my response to Trumps message to Canada...and it makes my blood boil to a certain extent...however I realise his impact on all of you Patriots is likely far worse and substantial.
I look to you all for your great work and journalism...as the engagement in the truth is ultimately important in this very odd time we live. In my youth I saw the film Clockwork Orange and was shocked by the concept of an alternate cult and dynamic...and now I'm seeing it first hand in America by the so called Governance of the State by Trump and his Administration.
It's like toothpick in the eyes time...and it's time to wake up and take full stock of what is really happening...it's time to surface and be seen...it's time to take hold of Democracy and run with it like a torch along the beach!!
Anyway...below is my response to Trumps latest message to Canada...and I will shout from the rooftops much more that simply 'STOP' (the 50 Lashes with Wet Noodle comment) he sent to Putin...when Ukraine was being bombed by tons of Missiles and Drones.
I'm a Canadian...and I'm going to respond to Drumpf...as if I'm having a conversation with him directly...[my words are in BRACKETS] “Good luck to the Great people of Canada. Elect the man who has the strength and wisdom to cut your taxes in half, [First of all Donny Boy, I wouldn't elect you to run a laundromat...although you do have capacity there as you've LAUNDERED RUSSIAN MONEY and INVESTMENTS FOR DECADES] increase your military power, for free, to the highest level in the World, [NO THANKS...WE'RE going to BUILD OUR OWN MILITARY...WITH OUR OWN RARE EARTH MATERIALS and POWER and EXPERTISE...IN ADDITION TO BEING AN EQUAL PARTNER IN NATO from which you have ABANDONED] have your Car, Steel, Aluminum, Lumber, Energy, and all other businesses, QUADRUPLE in size, WITH ZERO TARIFFS OR TAXES, [I DON'T THINK SO...SINCE YOU DECIDED YEARS AGO TO GLOBALIZE and REAP THE PROFITS...YOU WON"T TREAT US ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN THOSE COUNTRIES YOU HAVE RAPED ALREADY...WE OWE YOU NOTHING...IN FACT WE RETAIN $380Billion OF YOUR DEBT as WE SPEAK...NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU'RE DEBT IS CURRENTLY $36Trillion and expanding RAPIDLY WITH YOUR LATEST BUDGET INDICATORS...AND THAT'S WHY YOU WANT TO OWN CANADA, GREENLAND, PANAMA...AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS ON...ISN'T IT!?] if Canada becomes the cherished 51st State of the United States of America. ALL POSITIVES WITH NO NEGATIVES. IT WAS MEANT TO BE!”
[FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE...FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T PLAN TO BE GOVERNED BY A FASCIST OR A TOTALITARIAN STATE...THERE ARE NO POSITIVES FOR US...AS WE KIND OF LIKE OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OUR DEMOCRACY, OUR LOVE OF COUNTRY, OUR KINDNESS and GOOD WILL WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH OUR HUMANITARIAN VISION, OUR ATTENTION, CARE and RESPECT FOR ALL WALKS OF LIFE ACROSS THE PLANET...THIS MEANS WE STRONGLY BELIEVE IN DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion)...WE ARE STRONGER THIS WAY...we are certainly not weaker by your account...you little Ignorant, Intolerant, Self Indulgent, Vile specimen of a man...or more apt...a Creature entwined in Self Pity...due to your Psychosis as a Malignant Narcissist...WHY WOULD YOU EVER THINK YOU ARE STRONG and WISE is beyond ME...and certainly beyond the REST OF THE WORLD...who SEES YOU DAILY on CENTRE STAGE...MAKING A COMPLETE FOOL OF YOURSELF...and unfortunately at the same time MAKING AMERICA CRINGE AT YOUR EVERY DECISION and STATEMENT. YOU ARE A FALSE PROPHET a SNAKE OIL SALESMAN INTENT ON MAKING YOUR FAMILY RICH and THE WORLD KNOWS ALL OF THIS and MUCH BETTER...THE WORLD KNOWS HOW TO CONDUCT ITSELF...with MUCH GREATER TRUST IN EACH OTHER...WE ASPIRE TO ACHIEVE GREATNESS THROUGH COLLABORATION WITH OTHERS, RATIONAL THOUGHT and ABOVE ALL DECENCY and HUMANITY at THE CORE!
IT WILL NO DOUBT BE A GOLDEN AGE...WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US and may you FIND YOUR NEMESIS...YOUR GULAG TO END ALL GULAGS...AND THE WORLD WILL PERHAPS HAIL NASTROVIA !]
I'm glad I got that out of my system...because most Canadians feel the same way...here's to DEMOCRACY...and you folks South of the 49th can achieve it and most certainly will...WE ARE BEHIND YOU ALL THE WAY !!
Ice are the leading edge of the fascist takeover. We must resist now while we still can. They are not equivalent to police. They are equivalent to brown shirts.
Exactly! King Donald's (First of his name) Goldcloaks. There should be a serious judicial and criminal review of ICE - their behavior is despicable and often illegal; the tone is set by the leadership. These people should be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted since it appears they may have often broken the law.
"Comply and turn them over, because it’s the law."
Is it the law or is it what ICE says the law is? If they are following an illegal order and/or they don't have an arrest warrant (my imperfect understanding of the WI case was that they did not have a judicial arrest warrant), that's a pretty good defense in my book. Granted thwarting ICE might cost you time and finances but people need to start making a stand if they think they are doing something illegal, which seems frequent now.
Based on the article below, it seems that the type of warrant will be important both for this case and in the future. Unfortunately, we now all need to understand the difference.
Did you seriously come here to argue that people should illegally be denied due process? That's been the big question. I see very few people arguing that gang members that have received due process shouldn't be deported.
First you have to prove they are MS-13 gang members. Just like they have to prove you have committed a crime before they lock you up. Let alone send you to a foreign gulag. Yes, it is about due process.
Since many in Hollywood are going to bend the knee despite all of THEIR tough talk, we can bet the next new series on CBS is going to be ICE, and it’s going to show these benevolent hardworking “officers” “doing their duty to protect us”, and every immigrant they grab will be guilty of what they’re accused of.
I don’t watch American TV anymore, I don’t want to hear an American accent in my house if I can help it. I physically can’t leave, I don’t have any special skills or enough money to buy a passport, let alone move out of the country. But I can leave it when I read books or watch TV.
I’m so done with this place, but I’m trapped here.
FYI, I’d do what I could to not cooperate, if I had to hide someone, I would, if I had to delay them in some way so they can get away I would.
I’m single, my family and close friends all dispersed all over the country and the world, so my biggest fear would be arrest, because no one would know I was gone, because there’s no one I speak to every day, because at the moment I’m unemployed.
I was a state trial court judge in Colorado during the first regime. I ordered ICE could not be in my courtroom, nor could our sheriff deputies if they were assisting ICE. I did what Judge Dugan did, and the White House heard about it and complained about me as “an uppity woman judge,” but that’s as far as it went, pre-Patel/Bondi.
If I was an American...I'd avoid ICE at all costs...I'd protect the innocent and law abiding people in attics, basements, treehouses, RV's, boats, warehouses...anywhere in order to avoid Citizens and Non-Citizens being arrested~deported without due process to out of State or Foreign Prisons or Corporate Incarceration Camps.
Consideration may be given to another Underground Railroad to Canada through the Northern States and Alaska...if things get totally out of hand by the current Administration.
One should consider anything to avoid the break up of families or sending people to perish like the SS [Schuutzstaffel] or the Gestapo orchestrated, that regime now stealthy disguised as ICE, Homeland Security and the FBI in America.
Following the Revolution and Overthrow of the government by its Citizens...I'd dismantle the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp and turn it into a eco-friendly reserve and give the land back to Cuba in perpetuity. I'd return all the CECOT [San Salvador] deportees to America and orchestrate Due-Process reviews for all effected.
I'd ban the use of the term 'Illegal Alien' and use instead the term 'Non Certified American' [NCA]...where an American Citizen is considered a 'Certified American' [CA].
I'd try all the Administration Ring Leaders for criminality here under Crimes Against Humanity...including Drumpf, IntolerVance, Rubio, Bondi, Lyons, Noem and Patel.
Alcatraz would make for a fine place of incarceration for this lot...and the Birdman is Drumpf as he already sits in the Cuckoos Nest!
ELBOWS UP - ELECTION DAY HERE IN CANADA - ECONOMY and SOVEREIGNTY OUR PRIME INTERESTS...and we should have an ECONOMIST at the HELM to steer this SHIP to FAVOURABLE PORTS OF CALL. It could be America however A REVISION IN ADMINISTRATION IS REQUIRED FIRST and FOREMOST!
This is an extremely helpful paradigm. Thank you. This could affect us all and we need to be prepared.
As a former elementary school principal, I can say that the scenario Charlie presents regarding ICE agents showing up at a school is well within the realm of possibility, and probably within the realm of likelihood, given what we have seen recently.
Of course, it’s easy for me to opine from my perspective as a retiree, but the established legal standard when I was a principal was that the building principal was, in fact, an agent of the state government, and he/she had complete authority and control over who could be granted access to any student while they were in the principal’s care (“in loco parentis”), as well as the authority to set the conditions for that access (e.g., principal or school counselor present with the student, etc.).
Believe me, I have been involved in some contentious situations involving requests by outside agents to interview students. In all of those instances I was guided by my responsibility to always act in what I deemed to be “the best interest of the student.” It is my understanding and belief that this is the core concept in the legally established DUTY of a school principal to act “in loco parentis” (i.e., in the place of a parent).
So, from my relatively safe perch of retirement, I will say that if I were faced with ICE agents demanding to see a student in my care I honestly believe I would inform the agents that I did not think it would be in my student’s best interest to have his/her day interrupted - and probably be emotionally stressed, if not absolutely traumatized - so, I would not facilitate their efforts. I would refer them to the superintendent’s office for further discussion. And I tend to think that if they wanted to use strong arm tactics and force their way down the hall to enter the classroom I would take additional steps to prevent them from doing so ….. I can think of some possible actions I would take, but I won’t hypothesize beyond that.
One last note that is worth considering in this current climate involves the role of a “school resource officer” in all of this. Resource officers are generally members of local police departments or sheriff’s offices, and their responsibilities and roles in such a confrontation is another important consideration, imo. And it is one I am not equipped to offer an educated opinion about at this time.
I wish all school personnel the best as I am sure many of them will regrettably be faced with scenarios like this over the coming months and years.
Tacky ugliness on full display.
He gets off on publicly humiliating people, just like his tacky, ugly boss.
ICE agents could go fuck themselves. I would refuse access in all cases, call ACLU or any other public legal aid services, and hide the "deportees" until the lawyers arrived.
Powerful piece Mr Sykes.
I feel it’s almost like the modern day “First they came for the socialists..”
Well done.
And for the record (not that I think you read all this but) I have been listening to you on Bulwark in the anti-trump years. Tho I had read your conservative pieces for several years prior so I knew who you were. I can’t say we always saw eye to eye but you are and always were an earnest debater which I respect. Sense of humor is good to boot.
Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to be realistic. Do I have the money to defend myself or pay bail, which I will have to do if I'm arrested even if charges are later dropped. It's a problem. Am I willing to be called a terrorist and potentially be sent to a black site in an unknown location where I will never have contact with my family again. Do the old Bush laws that allowed for places like GITMO apply here. I don't think anyone knows. And if they can bypass due process....it's something to think about.
Hi Charlie, I've likely said enough today...as we're voting in Canada for a Prime Minister to stand up [or ELBOWS UP] to your Leader and his Administration.
I read Trumps recent take on Canada again through an X Rant that I received through the Meidas Network that I subscribe to also. Adam Kinzinger is on my list with Heather Cox Richardson...so I can be well rounded on the side of Democracy.
So below is my response to Trumps message to Canada...and it makes my blood boil to a certain extent...however I realise his impact on all of you Patriots is likely far worse and substantial.
I look to you all for your great work and journalism...as the engagement in the truth is ultimately important in this very odd time we live. In my youth I saw the film Clockwork Orange and was shocked by the concept of an alternate cult and dynamic...and now I'm seeing it first hand in America by the so called Governance of the State by Trump and his Administration.
It's like toothpick in the eyes time...and it's time to wake up and take full stock of what is really happening...it's time to surface and be seen...it's time to take hold of Democracy and run with it like a torch along the beach!!
Anyway...below is my response to Trumps latest message to Canada...and I will shout from the rooftops much more that simply 'STOP' (the 50 Lashes with Wet Noodle comment) he sent to Putin...when Ukraine was being bombed by tons of Missiles and Drones.
I'm a Canadian...and I'm going to respond to Drumpf...as if I'm having a conversation with him directly...[my words are in BRACKETS] “Good luck to the Great people of Canada. Elect the man who has the strength and wisdom to cut your taxes in half, [First of all Donny Boy, I wouldn't elect you to run a laundromat...although you do have capacity there as you've LAUNDERED RUSSIAN MONEY and INVESTMENTS FOR DECADES] increase your military power, for free, to the highest level in the World, [NO THANKS...WE'RE going to BUILD OUR OWN MILITARY...WITH OUR OWN RARE EARTH MATERIALS and POWER and EXPERTISE...IN ADDITION TO BEING AN EQUAL PARTNER IN NATO from which you have ABANDONED] have your Car, Steel, Aluminum, Lumber, Energy, and all other businesses, QUADRUPLE in size, WITH ZERO TARIFFS OR TAXES, [I DON'T THINK SO...SINCE YOU DECIDED YEARS AGO TO GLOBALIZE and REAP THE PROFITS...YOU WON"T TREAT US ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN THOSE COUNTRIES YOU HAVE RAPED ALREADY...WE OWE YOU NOTHING...IN FACT WE RETAIN $380Billion OF YOUR DEBT as WE SPEAK...NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU'RE DEBT IS CURRENTLY $36Trillion and expanding RAPIDLY WITH YOUR LATEST BUDGET INDICATORS...AND THAT'S WHY YOU WANT TO OWN CANADA, GREENLAND, PANAMA...AND ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS ON...ISN'T IT!?] if Canada becomes the cherished 51st State of the United States of America. ALL POSITIVES WITH NO NEGATIVES. IT WAS MEANT TO BE!”
[FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE...FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T PLAN TO BE GOVERNED BY A FASCIST OR A TOTALITARIAN STATE...THERE ARE NO POSITIVES FOR US...AS WE KIND OF LIKE OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OUR DEMOCRACY, OUR LOVE OF COUNTRY, OUR KINDNESS and GOOD WILL WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH OUR HUMANITARIAN VISION, OUR ATTENTION, CARE and RESPECT FOR ALL WALKS OF LIFE ACROSS THE PLANET...THIS MEANS WE STRONGLY BELIEVE IN DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion)...WE ARE STRONGER THIS WAY...we are certainly not weaker by your account...you little Ignorant, Intolerant, Self Indulgent, Vile specimen of a man...or more apt...a Creature entwined in Self Pity...due to your Psychosis as a Malignant Narcissist...WHY WOULD YOU EVER THINK YOU ARE STRONG and WISE is beyond ME...and certainly beyond the REST OF THE WORLD...who SEES YOU DAILY on CENTRE STAGE...MAKING A COMPLETE FOOL OF YOURSELF...and unfortunately at the same time MAKING AMERICA CRINGE AT YOUR EVERY DECISION and STATEMENT. YOU ARE A FALSE PROPHET a SNAKE OIL SALESMAN INTENT ON MAKING YOUR FAMILY RICH and THE WORLD KNOWS ALL OF THIS and MUCH BETTER...THE WORLD KNOWS HOW TO CONDUCT ITSELF...with MUCH GREATER TRUST IN EACH OTHER...WE ASPIRE TO ACHIEVE GREATNESS THROUGH COLLABORATION WITH OTHERS, RATIONAL THOUGHT and ABOVE ALL DECENCY and HUMANITY at THE CORE!
IT WILL NO DOUBT BE A GOLDEN AGE...WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US and may you FIND YOUR NEMESIS...YOUR GULAG TO END ALL GULAGS...AND THE WORLD WILL PERHAPS HAIL NASTROVIA !]
I'm glad I got that out of my system...because most Canadians feel the same way...here's to DEMOCRACY...and you folks South of the 49th can achieve it and most certainly will...WE ARE BEHIND YOU ALL THE WAY !!
“ I run the country in the world”. !!!!!
That tells his mindset
Power and control
illusions of Granduer
Oh my gosh
I hope these words are heard around the world
Posting that picture of that judge in Wisconsin with handcuff son going into a car is illegal !!!!
Very good posting today
I love how you sum everything up
direct us to things that we need to read .
Thank you for not stopping
Ice are the leading edge of the fascist takeover. We must resist now while we still can. They are not equivalent to police. They are equivalent to brown shirts.
Exactly! King Donald's (First of his name) Goldcloaks. There should be a serious judicial and criminal review of ICE - their behavior is despicable and often illegal; the tone is set by the leadership. These people should be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted since it appears they may have often broken the law.
"Comply and turn them over, because it’s the law."
Is it the law or is it what ICE says the law is? If they are following an illegal order and/or they don't have an arrest warrant (my imperfect understanding of the WI case was that they did not have a judicial arrest warrant), that's a pretty good defense in my book. Granted thwarting ICE might cost you time and finances but people need to start making a stand if they think they are doing something illegal, which seems frequent now.
Based on the article below, it seems that the type of warrant will be important both for this case and in the future. Unfortunately, we now all need to understand the difference.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2025/04/23/what-is-the-difference-between-ice-administrative-judicial-warrants/83219950007/
Just read on the NPR website that Musk's doge boys are in the Nuclear Weapons computer system.
https://www.npr.org/2025/04/28/nx-s1-5378684/doge-energy-department-nuclear-secrets-access
If Deporting MS-13 Gang Members is a Constitutional Crisis, Then Let the Crisis Begin
https://torrancestephensphd.substack.com/p/if-deporting-ms-13-gang-members-is
Did you seriously come here to argue that people should illegally be denied due process? That's been the big question. I see very few people arguing that gang members that have received due process shouldn't be deported.
First you have to prove they are MS-13 gang members. Just like they have to prove you have committed a crime before they lock you up. Let alone send you to a foreign gulag. Yes, it is about due process.
Since many in Hollywood are going to bend the knee despite all of THEIR tough talk, we can bet the next new series on CBS is going to be ICE, and it’s going to show these benevolent hardworking “officers” “doing their duty to protect us”, and every immigrant they grab will be guilty of what they’re accused of.
I don’t watch American TV anymore, I don’t want to hear an American accent in my house if I can help it. I physically can’t leave, I don’t have any special skills or enough money to buy a passport, let alone move out of the country. But I can leave it when I read books or watch TV.
I’m so done with this place, but I’m trapped here.
FYI, I’d do what I could to not cooperate, if I had to hide someone, I would, if I had to delay them in some way so they can get away I would.
I’m single, my family and close friends all dispersed all over the country and the world, so my biggest fear would be arrest, because no one would know I was gone, because there’s no one I speak to every day, because at the moment I’m unemployed.
THAT SCARES ME
I know what I would do because I did it.
I was a state trial court judge in Colorado during the first regime. I ordered ICE could not be in my courtroom, nor could our sheriff deputies if they were assisting ICE. I did what Judge Dugan did, and the White House heard about it and complained about me as “an uppity woman judge,” but that’s as far as it went, pre-Patel/Bondi.
I’m retired now, but I’d absolutely do it again.
If I was an American...I'd avoid ICE at all costs...I'd protect the innocent and law abiding people in attics, basements, treehouses, RV's, boats, warehouses...anywhere in order to avoid Citizens and Non-Citizens being arrested~deported without due process to out of State or Foreign Prisons or Corporate Incarceration Camps.
Consideration may be given to another Underground Railroad to Canada through the Northern States and Alaska...if things get totally out of hand by the current Administration.
One should consider anything to avoid the break up of families or sending people to perish like the SS [Schuutzstaffel] or the Gestapo orchestrated, that regime now stealthy disguised as ICE, Homeland Security and the FBI in America.
Following the Revolution and Overthrow of the government by its Citizens...I'd dismantle the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp and turn it into a eco-friendly reserve and give the land back to Cuba in perpetuity. I'd return all the CECOT [San Salvador] deportees to America and orchestrate Due-Process reviews for all effected.
I'd ban the use of the term 'Illegal Alien' and use instead the term 'Non Certified American' [NCA]...where an American Citizen is considered a 'Certified American' [CA].
I'd try all the Administration Ring Leaders for criminality here under Crimes Against Humanity...including Drumpf, IntolerVance, Rubio, Bondi, Lyons, Noem and Patel.
Alcatraz would make for a fine place of incarceration for this lot...and the Birdman is Drumpf as he already sits in the Cuckoos Nest!
ELBOWS UP - ELECTION DAY HERE IN CANADA - ECONOMY and SOVEREIGNTY OUR PRIME INTERESTS...and we should have an ECONOMIST at the HELM to steer this SHIP to FAVOURABLE PORTS OF CALL. It could be America however A REVISION IN ADMINISTRATION IS REQUIRED FIRST and FOREMOST!
If you ever wondered what you would have done to resist fascism in 1930s Germany . . . you're doing it now.